LGD Grey Hurting Sheep

[sundaymorningfarms]

Hi there,

First post here and appreciate any feedback.

We have a 10 month old Great Pyrenees / Akbash who is rough playing with our sheep (we have 4), mouthing them and she has injured them by biting their front legs. We have had her since 4 months old and she has always been around the sheep. When I witness this behavior or any rough play I of course correct it -- loud NOs and submitting (not in anyway hurting her though, but pinning her down).

At night, she is always at her best. Sleep by the sheep, roams and guards, barks as she should etc. But in the early morning hours and sometimes before sunset she'll get the "zoomies" and feels the need to play. Which in turn has caused damage to the sheep.

She hurt one badly today after we thought the issue was much improved. So now I am tying her in the paddock where the sheep roam, so they can get away if needed but she can see them and be around them.

I know she is a puppy still and these dogs take a long time to mature, but I am not convinced we are doing the right thing. I've heard mixed opinions on "training" these dogs (some say "don't train as they need to be autonomous" but others of course train in at least some commands -- sit, stay, come, etc.).

Some other context that I think is important for our particular situation.

- My wife and I are experienced dog owners (have two domestic dogs, one's a mastiff mix who's old now and the other is a mexican mutt.) Our mastiff was a rescue and had issues, which we trained out of him.

- Our property isn't huge. 2 acres of which the sheep will at times utilize all of it. But I'm wondering if it's too small an area for a Great Pyrenees LGD? As mentioned we also only have 4 sheep -- not enough work for her?

- Grey (the LGD) is otherwise a very good dog. Good around people, good around kids, good around dogs she knows (i.e. our domestic dogs)

- We (maybe made the mistake of) letting her play with our one dog at certain times when she was younger. We don't do this now.

- When she was a really little puppy, when she used to try and play with the sheep they would correct so I didn't correct nearly as much as I do now (also in reflection probably a mistake)


Thank you in advance for the help, appreciate any thoughts or feedback.

 

[Margali]

Welcome to the forum!
@Ridgetop @Baymule Can you guys provide advice? I'm new to LGDs and they are my mentors.

 

[Baymule]

Absolutely LGDs need training. The old idea of toss them out in the pasture and don’t pet them was and is, totally wrong. It’s a balance. They don’t need to be house dogs, they need to be in the pasture, in the barn, with livestock. But you can certainly give them love and attention.

I have a dog, as a youngster, he chased lambs-and was smart enough to do it early mornings or late evenings. So it was hard to catch him.

First off, you are on the right track by putting him on a chain so the sheep can get away from him. The way I handled my chasing pup was to let the weaned lambs out in the pasture and pen him up. At night, they were penned up and I let the dog in the pasture. There was a small pen in the barn that opened to the pasture, so he had shelter if it rained. I only let the dog out with the lambs if I was outside and could watch him. In time, he outgrew it.

So I suggest keeping your dog tethered with the sheep. At night, pen them up and let the dog patrol. It will take time, work and patience. Or you can pen the dog, let sheep out, then pen sheep and let the dog out.

You can put him on a leash and walk him in the sheep. If he shows too much interest, a low aaahhhnnttt! If he doesn’t listen, louder and a sharp jerk on the leash. Between this and keeping them next to each other but separated, he will begin to get the idea.

Is your pasture 2 acres, or is that the total, minus house and yard? Either way, it is small for a LGD. It can be done, you may have to run a hot wire around the top of the fence and bottom to keep him from jumping or digging out. If he starts getting out, no amount of training can stop him except a smoking hot wire. Some people use shock collars but I’m not in favor of them. I’m telling you this so if it starts, get a hot wire up immediately. You don’t want your dog roaming and getting run over or stolen.

Please keep posting, give progress reports and we will help you all we can.

 

[Ridgetop]

10 moths is the age when some LGDs will begin plying with their sheep. Their sheep are their pack so they play with them like they would play with other puppies and dogs. Dogs and puppies run, chase, and play bite each other. The problem is that the sheep don't play that way. Allowing the LGD to play with your other dogs is ok. She will work off energy and be less interested in playing with (biting) the sheep. This is a puppy stage that will eventually be outgrown as she ages and becomes calmer.

Do you have any tough, cranky sheep? Or rams? If you do, let her in with them and they will go after her when she bothers them. They will discipline her for you. If you don't have any sheep or goats that tough, then you will have to keep her away from the sheep for a while. Use the advice Baymule gave you about walking in among the flock with her on a lead and correcting any attempts at running after the sheep. It will take a while but it can be done.

One of our Anatolians had juvenile puppy play behavior and teenage puppy play behavior. The first juvenile behavior was easily cured by putting the 4-month-old puppy in with the rams. When she ran at them to play, they knocked her down. It only took several episodes to learn that the rams were not playful BFFs. The teenage behavior at 12 months was more serious and resulted in 6-8 older lambs with serious bite wounds on their legs. It took 2 months of twice daily draining infected punctures, cleaning them, and antibiotics to cure them. Meanwhile, we watched Angel like a hawk and any type of playful or chasing behavior was quickly stopped. She only did this behavior with her favorite lambs that she considered her special buddies.

While this behavior is not uncommon, not all guardian dogs do it. Angel was the only one out of our 4 Anatolians to want to play with the lambs in this manner. Ozel, age 12 months, would run after the sheep when they were let out of their night enclosure. This was because the sheep would race out of the gate. We worked with Ozel and also noticed that Angel, 4 years now, would intercept Ozel and start playing with her.